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Interview: Mathias B. Freese by Vibha Sharma

Interview : Mathias B. Freese

fiction

by | on April 30th, 2012 | 1 comment

Mathias B. Freese is a multifaceted personality who is a teacher, a psychotherapist and an author. I got a chance to read and review(here) one of his books – ’This Mobius Strip of Ifs’ and was quite impressed by his writing style and the sincere way in which he has shared his life with his readers.
It was a pleasure to conduct an e-interview with him for our readers here.
1. When did you start writing your experiences in the book form ? How has been the writing experience so far?
I have been writing since 1968, although at age eighteen my high school yearbook published a poem by me which was so misunderstood and so savagely edited that I didn’t recognize it when it was in print. An English teacher got carried away and omitted the underlying theme of depression which I was experiencing when I wrote it. Unknowingly she compounded my resentment. It was the repressed Fifties, so what else is new? The next effort was ten years later in a short piece for an education journal which revealed or uncorked my disenchantment with teaching content in the classroom. After that my full-blown neurosis composed of despair, depression and rage revealed itself in 1974 when I had “Herbie” published, my first major short story. (See my first short story collection, Down to a Sunless See.) As you know the first essay in This Mobius Strip of Ifs , explores my serendipitous and synchronous adventure with that particular story. In any case after being listed with Mailer, Oates, Singer and other greats, I felt very encouraged and continued to write.
Rejections cooled my ardor but I never quit. Indeed, I promised myself that I would set out to write the best stories I could and at a later date have them published. This self-promise took thirty or so years. Characterologically this effort says so much more about me than as a writer. So as Spencer Tracy once said about Kathryn Hepburn in one of their collaborations, what there is of her is “cherce.” Consequently I don’t quit. I persevere. The only audience I write for is me and if you like what I have written, so be it.
My writing experience can be extracted in a sense from Kazantzakis’s epitaph: “I hope for nothing. I fear nothing. I am free.”
2. What has this literary journey taught you and enriched you with?
Vibha, this question is the equivalent, as I think about it, of assessing my very life which by the way is what I have done on a regular basis over the years and decades, in short, pungent, I hope, open and feeling essays. We are all born to be done away with. Again I go to an epitaph to help reflect, this time Epicurus: “I was not; I have been; I am not; I do not mind.” Much wisdom and therapy in that remark, for Epicurus, rightly so, believed that philosophy should be a kind of therapy.
But readers of this interview want something else, don’t they, Vibha? (Happy talk?) An aspect of myself is not to please others but that while I write I share my experience with you, with me first. I have enriched my literary journey, not the other way around. I give to my writing and I learn in that way to write better. Krishnamurti famously said in one of his dialogues, “The word is not the thing itself.” So all my writing is just an approximation of what turmoil, tumult and insight I have about my human condition. As we all should know, to cite Christopher Hitchens, we are only partially rational, animal, and often savage at that, and our human genome controls the robot that we are.
3. Which has been your most satisfying writing experience so far?
The i Tetralogy, my extensive take on the Holocaust, represented much of who I am as a Jew and human being, of my growing up Jewish in America. In that novel I put all the skills, imagination and heartfelt renderings I could about man. I have gone beyond Wiesel’s affirmation that indifference is not tolerable any longer. I have arrived at a different assessment based on my reading, psychotherapeutic experience, my atheism – free of religious conditioning, the bane of civilization, and I have gone into the unexplored country. Man is out of control, always has been, genetically so! In a few years we all will be reading about evolutionary psychology, the additional scientific work based on Darwin’s theories which have emerged in the 90s. Dawkins, Dennett, Ridley, Wright will become well-known names, and what they have to report based on immense scientific studies can be summed up in Richard Dawkins words: “We are survival machines – robot vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecule known as genes. This is a truth that still fills me with astonishment.” The Selfish Gene Consequently writing about the Holocaust allowed me to examine the nature of man so genetically far beyond Hobbes’s “short, nasty and brutish” assessment.
This Mobius Strip of Ifs, I believe, has given me the most pleasure because I was freewheeling in my approach and many essays were written over four decades and reflected the thinking I had at different stages of my adult life. Upon reflection, the book is about the emergence of a self. It was an assessment of myself and now at 71 I see where I had trod and what lay before me. Ironically it was you or someone else who wrote that the book was a profound self help one which, I feel, is an oxymoron.
Nevertheless, this made me think and if it is so, that I have made others go back to my book, chew and digest it, that is a delightful gift to this writer’s life. My working hypothesis is that this book is from an inner directed person, and that is uncommon. Recently the American Psychiatric Association deleted Narcissism from its manual of disorders, DSM IV or V. That is, most Americans are now narcissistic and what was formerly a disorder is now the norm. All those learned interventions I had acquired for dealing with this disorder goes out the window. So when an American goes overseas and wants a house and insists that it have an American bathroom, that kitchentop counters be made of granite, that all appliances be stainless steel only testifies to our lunacy, not our so-called normalcy. By the way, the essential trait of a narcissist is his or her emptiness, the rest is all bluff.
4. Are all the essays in ‘Mobius Strip of Ifs’ taken truthfully from your own life or do they have some fictional elements
too? How comfortable do you feel opening your feelings in front of the world?
Easy to answer. My life is non-fiction. I will not play shrink here, but I gather individuals are uncomfortable with my openness. An English Academic, who I have 50 years on, cited this difference between English and American writers. Americans are into Whitman, Thoreau, Ginsburg and British writers, except for Hitchens and a few others, are constipated, to be blunt. Brits, unlike Ginsburg, cannot howl. I can’t think of an English equivalent to Hart Crane. To make my point, this academic was displeased with my plumage. Oh I couldn’t care less because she cannot see through her own conditioning.
Having spent years in treatment and working on myself by reading Krishnamurti, I have no qualms about expressing my feelings openly, not disguised as in novels and short stories. The personal essay fits my personality and I use it as best I
can. Think about this: the real task of a good shrink is to make the unconscious conscious and human beings have a terrible time arriving at revealing themselves. We really do not communicate well as a species. We are gelatinous vats of suppressed and repressed feelings and awarenesses. When you can break through, you are free.
I struggle to be psychologically free. I can say that all my writing is about my need to be psychologically free, of myself, especially you, and of the world which conditions 24/7. And the worst felon in all this is the monolithic and mammoth conditioning of religion which is the dragon at the gate. Freud argued (The Future of an Illusion) that to become free of this conditioning brings you into full adult maturity as a human being. Religion is man -made. (Pause.) Consequently it is corruptive.
5. What do you intend to write next? When is it expected to be published?
The next book is already finished and I am thinking of how to go about getting it published. I have submitted it to several online magazine contests, but most likely I will have to self-publish it myself.I will not engage agents on this because it is so time intensive to acquire one I’d rather go the other alternative routes. After all, I do not have a vast readership nor do I devote many hours to promoting the book. I try to do what I can but I refuse to be sucked into rampaging capitalism which is all the rage across the internet, the hustling, self-promoting, the slobber at some writers’ mouths as they urge you to read this or that.
So here is a synopsis of my next book. No one who encounters the Holocaust seriously is ever done with it.
I Truly Lament, is a varied collection of stories, inmates in death camps, survivors of these camps, disenchanted Golems complaining about their tasks, Holocaust deniers and their ravings, and collectors of Hitler curiosa (only recently a few linens from Hitler’s bedroom suite went up for sale!) as well as an imagined interview with Eva Braun during her last days in the bunker. The intent is to perceive the Holocaust from several points of view.
An astute historian of the Holocaust has observed that it is much like a train wreck, survivors wandering about in a daze, sense and understanding, for the moment, absent. No comprehensive rational order in sight.
In my award-winning Holocaust novel, The i Tetralogy, considered by some an important contribution to Holocaust literature as well as a work of “undying artistic integrity” (Arizona Daily Sun) I could not imagine it all, and this book of
stories completes my personal struggle. Within the past year 10 stories have been published online and in print from this collection, the most recent “Slave” published in Del Sol Review in December 2011.
I will promote my present book and by year’s end publish the new one.
6. What were your thoughts when you started writing iTetralogy ? What unique thing did you want to convey on the Holocaust that has not been done before?
Allow me to depart a little from the question and express my thoughts in this fashion To have survived the Holocaust is to have been gutted as a human being. The inner self is ravished. Whether or not one recovers from that is beyond comprehension.
All literary depictions of the Holocaust end as failures, perhaps revealing shards of understanding. And is understanding ever enough? Writing about the Holocaust is a ghastly grandiosity.The enduring mystery of the Holocaust is that memory must metabolize it endlessly and so we must try to describe it, for it goes beyond all imaginable boundaries. One soon realizes the fundamental understanding that the species is wildly damaged, for only a damaged species could have committed the Holocaust.
No great piece of art, no technological achievement or other historical creation of mankind can ever expunge the Holocaust.
Human beings are so much less than we give them credit for. If we begin here perhaps books can be written about the Holocaust – without blinders or eyelids, although by definition they will fail. Every artist who struggles with the Holocaust must begin with an acceptance of failure and that must be worked through before art begins.
I have come up short here. I must say what I have to say as a man, as a Jew, and be done with it. I feel deeply the flaw within as part of this species. I am ashamed.
By name and nomenclature, the Holocaust is but an approximation of what happened. The species cannot grasp its nature. The artist will only succeed marginally if he or she manages to drive that home.
The eternal perseveration of the species has become the Holocaust. We will never be done with it. We will never work it through.
7. You are a teacher and a psychotherapist – which of these two vocations excite you more or is more satisfying, other than writing. While working in the capacity of a psychotherapist, which do you think are the most common human frailties and strengths?
As a psychotherapist I can engage human beings, at times, at very profound levels, not in the classroom. Most schools condition human beings, that is their real task – to indoctrinate, to be an American or to be French. By working with my fellow human beings I began to grow as well, and as you know, Vibha, in This Mobius Strip of ifs I write about the telling
consequences of being a client and a practitioner. For me treatment helped this soul to become much more free, more open, more expressive, although I still work on those potholes we all have.
I am not an expert on human happiness, frailties and strengths. No one is an expert. As I age I realize I know shit. Perhaps other than techniques, therapists should keep that in mind, all “professionals.” Look at the world about – it is in chaos, those in charge are not in charge themselves, think of Clinton’s errant penis, Cheney’s need to devour human beings by sending them off to war, Sarah Palin who did not know that there was a North Korea and a South Korea.
I’d pose your question another way. What can I do to become aware, and what can I do to decondition myself so that I can see clearly”? In that is hope.
8. Could you please give suggestions to budding authors on how to make their writing more effective and meaningful?
Advice sucks. Whatever advice I have received I had to process through my own machinery. So if you want to lick at the waters of advice-givers, make sure that your machinery is working real well and that you can discern good from bad.
Let me specify. It is an old cliché to writers that they should write between 500 to 1000 words a day over years. And what if you cannot?
Well, I had to work and feed the family. I wrote in study halls while I taught; I wrote late into the night when I could. I fought off despair all those years through sheer grit and bullheadedness. I just wanted to write to exorcise my dybbuks. I never thought of myself as a writer. I was an auto-didact. What I have concluded is that you do your best, learn what you can, use what seems useful and forget all the bullshit – you know, 10 ways to have your book reviewed, how to write a query letter to a blogger, how to get an editor, and how to promote you work before you even write it (book as package). I don’t know about you but I am fatigued. We do all this fussing as each day we move closer to our end. Ecce Homo.

Query Letter for The i Tetralogy (Updated)

Dear Editor:

I am querying you as to a possible review of The i Tetralogy.

The i Tetralogy  is a fictionalized account of the devastating effects of the Holocaust. The culmination of four decades of reflection and introspection, my therapeutic work with Holocaust survivors, and my own experience as an American Jew — the tetralogy captures the internal destruction of this epochal event, providing a powerful perspective into the lives of its victims and perpetrators, as well as the legacy it has left behind.

As to the tetralogy: assaying the monumental impact of the Holocaust, the tetralogy elucidates a truth abut humanity. The Holocaust has forever defined the species as indelibly damaged, capable on a molecular level  of killing and consuming its own. Experiencing this unvarnished — perhaps axiomatic — truth, which no revisionist can deny, the reader ponders the risk of forgetting, sanitizing, “sweetening” the Holocaust.

As you well know, books like this struggle; however, reviews have been excellent, many appearing on Amazon.com and Barnes and Noble. Bookflash.com has a press release on the book itself as well as personal information about me. Selections from each of the four novellas may be accessed at my publisher’s website, www.hatsoffbooks. com. A major and recent review has appeared on Breenibooks.com, April 2008. Interviews with me have appeared in Bookpleasures.com, Subtletea.com and Derek Alger, of Perigee.com, has just completed one in April, to be published with other interviews by that magazine within a year.

The book has been a decade in the writing. I believe it to be of significance.

A remarkable review by editor David Herrle was published in his ezine (25 pages!). The autobiographical essay which ends my book, titled Raison d’Etre, was published in its entirety with a critical introduction in New Therapist Magaine, May/June 2006, a special issue on the Holocaust in South Africa. And The Jewish Telegraph in Manchester, England, published a full-page interview with me in August 2006. I have also been reviewed in Bengal, India, Quill & Ink.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Mathias B. Freese, CSW

Writings, of Late

Before I begin, allow me to tell you that this piece will end with a poem. In The i Tetralogy I wrote several poems from a Nazi’s perspective and I ended the entire work with a psalm. Chutzpah runs in my blood. So does taking a risk while I am shitting in my pants. My first published poem was in the 1958 yearbook of Jamaica High School in jamaica, Queens (anyone out there who was a student?). I was a depressed young man and the poem reflects this. I wrote it on levels, to wit,  the description of water coursing down a stream, unwilling to be impeded by flotsam. What I was really teaching myself was that I would persevere although I was despondent; I would go on like the river itself. When it was edited and published in the yearbook by my English teacher, she completely misread and bowdlerized it so that the poem only retained the imagery of the waterfall which incensed me no end.  It was eviscerated of my personal intent. It was the first experience I ever had with editing, need I say more.

The January issue of the Mensa Bulletin has my short story, “The Tea Table,” in it with a bit too much overproduced graphics to highlight what the story clearly says. Unfortunately it too has been edited in a way that the subtletly of the story is missing now; in fact, the editor shifted first person to third in one place which bent me out of shape. In the final publication of the book it all will be righted. I recall Thornton Wilder being asked about the movie version of Our Town and how it had been truncated. Essentially he said that about two-thirds of the way in the audience had gotten the message and he wasn’t too upset about that. I remember his comment because I understand it well. Some letters I received about the story clearly reveal the readers’ appreciation of it.

In the last months of 2010 I was very fortunate to have 8 stories accepted for publication. Serving House Journal published “Soap” in its fall issue and I will be published again in its spring issue with “Sincerely, Max Weber.” This is a coup because the journal doesn’t accept this and that; in fact, the first story I submitted for the spring issue was bounced back by Duff Brenna, editor. he asked that I try again, which I did, and it was accepted. Since I have bragging rights, sample these two stories as to the kind of solemn and fog-ridden wharves I walk late at night. See www.fictionfix.net, “Cantor Matyas Balogh,” and www.servinghousejournal.com for “Soap.” Both stories come from a work in progress, “Working Through the Holocaust,” and I need to say something about this effort.

The Holocaust whirls about me in its spidery wisps, perhaps a projection of my own personal need to be felt. I have learned to feel, arduous and off-putting it has been. I am not a tzaddik, but I struggle to be a righteous man. it doesn’t take me too long before I can enter the horrible abyss which is the Holocaust. I could not let it go after my novel and so these stories appeared. About a year ago I just sat down and wrote a slew of stories; my Homeric muse is the unconscious and so I again pay tribute to it. It works while I sleep; it perseveres while I rest; it composes writing while I snore. And what did I write about: I wrote about Holocaust revisionists or deniers, much the same, as their psyches intrigue me, as I am interested in the “minds” of such simpletons like Coulter, Bachmann, Palin, Ingraham, the four gorgons of the media, et al. What makes a human being believe in rubbish and act in a rotten way is a forever perplexing issue? With the Nazis one has to dwell in hell to feel their exhalations. So, I wrote about a young adult, Jupiter Thitch, who was a denier and shot his load over the web; I wrote about a real denier, Max Weber, read some of his essays on his website and was appalled not so much by what he said but with the diligence and academic “scholarship” he applied to the issues with such mindboggling diligence. I made him a character in two stories. In fact, I use the conceit of having him reviewing my Holocaust novel, and what a curiosity that was for me — Holocaust revisionist reviews, in a personal letter to me, The i Tetralogy. That story, “Sincerely, Max Weber,” will be in the March issue of Serving House Journal.

I wrote about a retarded child who is abandoned to himself after his mother is rounded up. What happened to all the Down Syndrome children of Jewish mothers — clearly there is a great novel to be written about that (should I try?). I feel depleted as of now. I wrote, a la Kafka, of the despair and angst of concentration inmates; I wrote about survivors, and in one very long story I have a survivor review his life and compose notes about it. I wrote about the terror of being chased in “Apotheosis,” in which a Hasidic Jew escapes into the woods after his shtetl is razed by the Nazis and it ends in a series of fantasy episodes which may or may not work. Golems became characters in these stories, the fantasies of the Diaspora. “The Disenchanted Golem” is an extended story about a golem who questions his deeds, his purposes and the manipulation of him by Jews. No one wants to be a fantasy, not if you can’t have your own fantasies. I just let my mind wander with this one and I like it very much. After all, if you have read this blog you know I write for me first, and you can come along for the ride if you wish; we could chat about it. There are three stories about golems in the book in progress.

I composed some very off-beat stories, “Archipelago,” being one, which is beyond the pale; “Chagall’s Crows” deals with an inmate’s fantasy used to sustain his mind if not spirit. I entered this Holocaust pore and that Holocaust pore as I let my self wander, even to composing “Food,” a science fiction riff on a Holocaust victim being visited by a Jew from the present and the tiff they have. And in “Freud in Auschwitz,” a one page story, I try to give a sense of Freud in that situation; of course, it does not succeed, but the idea is ravishing to me. So there it is, a gallifmaufry of sensibilities, of felt moods, of anger, scorn and loathing. “Working Through the Holocaust” says it all in its title, for “working through” is therapy-speak for taking a client’s issue and like a dog, grabbing it in the teeth of both therapist and client and shaking it until it no longer matters — it is settled, it is metabolized, it is reconciled to and reconcilated with, and so to move on. With the Holocaust nothing is ever metabolized completely, for in it is everything we need to know about the mind, spirit, and psychological being of humans, and it is unrelentingly horrible.

I hope I will never write any more on the subject, but that is a lie I tell myself to console my self.

I tried to balance out the stories with several poems, some of which I am uncertain about; however, here is the poem I promised at the beginnning of this piece. It is an attempt to present the historical Jew asking for succor and receiving none. What is to be made of this poem? What do you make of it? Does it work at some level? I look forward to responses.

I Come

I come to you asking for your help.

You answer no, turn away.

I plead for your help. Your face is indifferent.

I call upon whatever good there is in you.

You stare at me as if I were an object.

I ask: fellow man to fellow man –Help me!

You don’t want to hear. You don’t register my existence.

I am shut out.

I made a mistake. I expected.

If I were you, I would do the same. I admit.

I go away.

Each one of us is unknown to ourselves, unknown to the other.

What is left is spare willingness, if that, to do for ourselves.

The species is as cold as a corpse.

I go to my death hating my fellow man more than my hated perpetrator.

The same thing.

I loathe my ilk.

Shoah Business: A Quick Exchange of E-mails

About a year ago Jane and I met a Holocaust survivor whose name, for my purposes, will be Josef Vekkony. An author of a ghost-written book about his experiences during the Holocaust, he lectures around Henderson, Nevada and elsewhere. He is probably past seventy and is a retired businessman. Something of a celebrity here, I now view him as the Holocaust “expert,” used by jewish agencies when next faced with an oubreak of anti-Semitism. All this back story is necessary as I was readily repelled when he gave me his business card which listed him as a Holocaust survivor — that was a new one on me. In fact, shortly after I wrote an extended short story called “Shoah Business,” exploring in fiction the correspondence he and I might have over this issue. I was really annoyed by his aggrandisement. I never published it. I believe Josef Vekkony is oblivious to what he is and what he does — welcome to the world.

I recall giving him my book and receiving his which I read. I never heard from him again, although I expected he might read my book and get back to me on it; but that was not to be and I soon gave up on that wish. During the year there was a scene in a local high school in which a gym teacher made remarks that essentially denied that the Holocaust had ever occurred. Local jewish groups got involved;  Mr. Vekkony was called in to talk to a large group and gave what I imagine is his silver bullet speech. I caught that talk on YouTube and was appalled in how he dealt with the students. After all, he is not a teacher but some of his techniques were ridiculous and more than ineffective — more on that later on. (I was so aggravated by his performance that I spent time drafting a letter to a local newspaper about it; it went unpublished.) Apparently he is the local Jewish fireman on call to put out anti -Jewish blazes. If you want to read my take on the Holocaust, see “On the Holocaust,” in Pages on this site; I gave it to a group of survivors and military personnel at an air force base in Arizona, about three years ago.

I am offended by Shoah business, the subtle and blatant kind. Enough said! On Sunday 27 June I received this e-mail from LinkedIn.

Matt,

I’d like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn.

-Josef

All the latent anger emerged. Jane and I chatted. She knew my anger and suggested that I may want to play the game, that is, connect up with him, that my book on the Holocaust might get some readership and whatever else the politically correct way might do for me. Jane  presented an option, but she knew that was not the way I would go. I sent this e-mail.

Mr. Vekkony: I read your book; you did not read mine or you did not respond; in any case, I have significant differences in how you go about presenting yourself. A Holocaust survivor is not an occupation which you apparently feel it is. Here we part. I will not become part of your network which only serves to advance your own narrow needs.

There is a curious synchronicity here; the other day I really considered to dispose of Vekkony’s book as I had enough of him as well (in trash now). The book reminded me of his narcissism if not grandiosity. in any case, after a year or more, he writes me so that we can link up professionally, ah the world of the business mind. Clearly he was scouring through business cards to extend his network — but not one word to another author about the Holocaust. Or to even say hello.

Vekkony answered the e-mail within minutes: here it is as it appeared with spelling errors, etc.

You are Right Holoasust Survivor is not an occupation. Under choices opf occupation, Retired or Lectuer was not listed. I did not list myself as a Holocaust survivor, but as a Phylantropist. “As to serve my narrow needs.” World wide there are around 140,000 people, who have listened, to my 560 lectures. At home I’ve around 7,000Letters, from my followers. You will have a hard time to convince these people. You are entitled to your opinion. By the way what was the title of your book? I’m getting a lot oof b ooks to read. May be I’ve not yours. No hard feeling on my side. god bless you and have a great life. Sincerely Josef Vekkony.

When I met him a year back, he made special note to Jane and I of how many lectures he had given! Tragic. I thought less is more applies not only to architecture but to life, to writing especially.

I wrote back:

You condemn yourself by your own words — you have “followers”; I have your business card given to me by you which lists you as a Holocaust survivor; yes, I am angry at you because you are into Shoah business and have very little insight into your own behaviors. I also watched you with young people at a recent school event and you simply have no idea how to deal with these kind of children — “Repeat after me, Never again!” {Jane finds that “refrain” personally distasteful.} Are you so simple that you believe people will change because of your exhortations? You are the one with the narrow mind; as an English teacher and psychotherapist I know what I am speaking about. You don’t. Any further correspondence will be deleted.

I had so much more to say but I left it at that.

I have no grand conclusion to come up with. It’s not the first nor last time that Jews will differ over the meaning(s) of the Holocaust; but I will not have it merchandised, especially by a dim-witted Jew who hasn’t the foggiest notion of what he is about. Survivors are human beings not immortals — I direct you, once again, to “On the Holocaust” at this site for further clarification of my point of view.

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